Podcast #14 With Privilege Comes Responsibility

Are you worried about how you should be showing up for your brand right now? Wondering if marketing has changed during 2020?

In today’s episode I’m talking with my friend Natalie Davison, who runs Marrow Marketing. Marrow Marketing is a marketing communications teaching company, teaching people how to show up, and how to get their message out.

The most important part of marketing communications, and branding communications in 2020, is actually just understanding that we all have a bit more requirement to lean more into the honest truth of who we are.

Let's stop trying to fit in with everyone, dipping our toes in everyone's puddle. Let's start being ourselves. Be you, be unique.  Stop procreating a world that benefits very few, and impresses many, including ourselves. Use your voice to stand out from everyone else. And yes, that means you will repel some people. But if you're not repelling, your definitely not attracting. Things are controversial now more than ever. People are politicizing everything. Wouldn't you want to attract the kind of people who really know what you believe in, and stand for?

Part of of showing up authentically, and as who you really are, might mean making mistakes too. But, we are over the whole show of being perfect all the time. Yes, we should always be striving for excellence, but we shouldn’t be going around judging people for their mistakes. And we sure as hell shouldn’t be beating ourselves up for our mistakes either. And as Natalie said, "If seeing my mistakes gives other business owners the courage to show up, and takes that pressure off of always being perfect, then it’s worth it." 

We discuss Natalie's disruption in life, and the disruption she is causing with her business. She see's issues and problems in our marketing world that need to be fixed, and she is on a mission to do that!


                                             5 Rapid Fire Questions for Natalie

  1. What is your mantra? - Our most honest energy attracts our best lives.
  2. What three words would you use to describe yourself or your brand? - Creative, Innovative, and Unique
  3. What is your least favorite mode of communication? - Voicemail
  4. What outfit makes you feel like a badass? - I love showing up like I’m about to perform.
  5. What are your brand colors and why did you choose those? - Maroon, and navy blue. Our brand is all about being who you are, and so we actually pulled our colors straight out from the outfits of the first photo shoot we did together.


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*Note- The Brand Disruptors Podcast is produced for the ear and made to be heard not read. We strongly encourage you to listen to the audio which includes emotion and emphasis that's not on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting it in print.


Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, Mia Lamont here. Welcome to today's episode of brand disruptors. I'm speaking with my friend Natalie Davidson, and we're talking all things marketing, but also branding and how you can use your privilege to help to create a world that works for everyone. So can't wait until you jump into this one. Let us know how you like it. Please comment, download, share with your friends. Let me know how you feel about it. Let's get it started.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Hi, I'm Neil about your host for grand disrupters. I have been a disruptor all my life. I'm here to help other women step into their own greatness by leaning into the disruptions of life. I decided to start brand disruptors because I wanted to show how I and other women like me took those disruptions and changed their lives and their industry. Branding is all about who you are at your core. Get ready to step into your power on your authenticity and show up like a boss. If you enjoy personal growth and all aspects, you're going to love this show. Hello

Speaker 1 (01:08):
And welcome to today's episode of brand disruptors. I am your host. And today I am here with Natalie Davison and we're going to be talking about all things, social media, but also we're going to be talking about those flamingos in the background. Good and telling my low Natalie and let them know a little bit about you. I, Hey everybody. I'm Natalie Davidson. I am located in Atlantic Canada. And from here I ride Miro marketing. So Mira marketing is, was an agency that has transitioned fully into a marketing communications teaching company. So we teach marketing communications to brands and that's how we spend our days. And it's a lot of fun. I imagine, like right now, marketing communication is something that's really big, right? Especially online because people just need to get the message out. Right. I just, actually, before we came on here, I just had an email from somebody and they were like, okay, in the times of COVID, because if you're watching this in the future, we're still in the times, in the times of COVID, what do we do about it then?

Speaker 1 (02:19):
You know, a page long list of all of the items that they're worried about. Right? So marketing communications brand communications are really essential right now. But I think what's interesting is I think everybody's assumed that things have changed drastically when really they haven't. It's just, we have a bit more of a requirement to lean more into the honest truth of who we are maybe more than ever. Oh my God. So I'm not going to even ask you these questions right now because I am so intrigued by what you said. I just did a live on the same thing, right? Oh yeah. Cause don't you think that COVID kind of had us take a step back and actually look at what's really important. Yes, absolutely. I also think that Covitz political divide slash everything that's kind of happening in the world right now has really divided us in a way that I haven't experienced in my lifetime.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
So I've never seen division white, this intense before, you know what I feel that's left very little tolerance for it is the gray area. So I don't feel from what I can observe and what's happening online and seeing what's effective and what's not, you can't water yourself down right now and keep a toe in every puddle to try and appease everybody. You know, we always said, Oh great, Grant's attractive repel. Yes. But that has never meant more than it does today. Because if you're not repelling somebody, as people are repelled so easily right now, if your brain is not repelling anybody, it is definitely not attracting anybody. You have watered things down and you were just kind of like flying under the radar and nobody can see you, you know? Exactly. Oh my God. I love all of that. Okay. So she remember guys, she said that she's from Canada and she can still tell the political divide.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
I know she's kind of talking about what's happening here in America. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's like, I mean, you know, we're glued to your debates. Let me tell you what happens in America. Majorly affects what happens in Canada, but make no mistake. Whether, you know, you are our influencer, you are American politics influence Canadian politics, American policy influences Canadian. It's just, I want to say, you know, that, that, that doesn't happen and that we, but it does. I mean, we're such close neighbors. Aren't Connie's are so wildly intertwined and you have such a larger economy of population based than we do. So what's really important to Canadians what's happening in the U S but also we just had a provincial election here in my province of new Brunswick during Komen. So we had the first election in Canada that happened during COVID and we were more divided than ever.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I mean, when you look at the lines of division in our province and the way that votes fell, we were more divided than we were two years ago when we went to the polls. And so I see people divided on small matters masks or political, whether you wear a mask or not is a political statement to some people. So we've politicized almost anything. So whether it's the U S election or whether you recycle your trash, I mean, all of these things now are soap boxes that people are dividing and uniting over. Yeah. I love that you spoke to the recycling piece because I think that, especially with all of the issues that we're all having, right? So

Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's almost like there's one party or one, one side of, you know, we get to do what we want to do and what we've been doing. And that's what it means to be free. But then there's another side of us that are like, Hey, we need to look at how things are being destroyed. And things are, things are not really aligned with, you know, the values that we say right. That we say are important to us. So tell me a little bit about like, how do you guys decide, like who you're going to work with?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Oh yeah. Okay. So I I'm loving that question, but I'd have to go back to something you said, because you said about people who were like, Oh, the way we were living was being free. And I think he really nailed something that I have not thought about until this moment. And that is really, we all do want freedom. We all do want to be free. That is the goal, but it's like, people are defining freedom in these very polarized ways. Absolutely. It's like this idea that, you know, we were free when we weren't, it's this understanding of like, what is the truth of the freedom? Like where are we free or where are we not like it any way? That's really the interesting thing, because so often we all want the big picture, same thing, and all of this disagreement and this, and this X comes from our disagreement on how to get there and who should get there.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
It has to do it where people actually believe or what people have been exposed to because I was talking to he who shall not be named supporter. And they were asking me about, they were, I asked them, I'm like, how do you even, like, I don't even understand how do you support this? And they're like, well, do you watch the news? And I'm like, actually I do. And I do my research and I do make sure that I know what I'm talking about. And it's almost like the scientific part of all of this. This is one of the other effects of COVID, especially here in America. Scientific facts are also now being questioned because you talked about the whole mass thing and you talked about, you know, people making that political, like, I have some friends who are like super healthy were like, I'm not wearing a mask.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Like I don't have any problems. I'm not going to wear a mask. And I'm like, yeah, but does that help the other person who might not be as healthy. Right. And then there's, the divide is all about, I think it's that right with the whole scientific thing, but it's also about self preservation and [inaudible] mentality. It's like, I can't live in my freedom if you get it too. Right. So yeah, the freedom was totally false. And I think that us not, you, you mentioned recycling us, not really thinking about, you know, what, we can keep destroying the earth, but if we keep doing that, then guess what, none of us will be here. It's amazing because I

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Just think everything we're seeing right now, you know, it's like we've taken these issues that we knew were here last year. And we have really put them in a pressure cooker now, and everybody is being forced to face them. So I think there were some of us that maybe were facing them sooner and we're trying to do what we could sooner and there, but now nobody can escape it. And what you're really getting this interesting lens on is how far humans will go to defend their own existing beliefs and how hard it is to change your perception, that this is so difficult for people. So they would rather believe that scientists and politicians and every institution has been, is lying about COVID then face the possible very scary fact that this is all true. And that's really something to think about what the human mind can do and can convince us. And it's really,

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Really hard to when you have a president that's out, you know, stomping the grounds now doing campaign on the campaign trail. And he can infect people right now. Right. I know they said that he's not contagious, but,

Speaker 1 (10:10):
And why do we have different rules for him? Like Coca doesn't have different rules,

Speaker 2 (10:14):
The best treatment that you know, wanting to buy. So anyway, yeah, that's a huge topic. And I'm so glad that you brought all that up because I think it does speak into the brand, the marketing and how, and how we actually show up in the world. Right? Because you can't have your toe in everybody's little pile. Like you got to find your lane and stick to that lane.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Right? You, you can't. And I think people think you can, people assume that you can. And I mean, sure, you can try, but what will happen inevitably is you're going to waste a lot of time on the wrong things. And we want the wrong people and a lot of money. And I mean, you know, we experienced in the early days of our business and we started as a marketing agency and we certainly didn't, we have yet to produce enough content to really let the world see who we were. And so we were just starting out and we picked up one of our first clients and it was a big client. It was a, it was such a big client. It was a celebrating big client. And that person that ran that account, absolutely like not only being wrong for us, but like really not liking us, like not respecting us, not thinking we should have a voice at the table as experts, even though they hired us to have voice as the voice at the table as experts.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
And it became clear really, really fast that we needed to make our content more clear, make our content more obvious. Who are we for? And that's that required us to then be much more honest with ourselves about who we were, but you asked a minute ago, who do we work with? Or how do we decide? What we really try to do is decide who we provide value to, and then show up so fully as ourselves, because we've already determined who we as ourselves provide value to. And so now we show up over and over and over as ourselves. And usually that weeds out the people that are wrong for us that sends them running the other way, which is really helpful because when we do sometimes get to a proposal stage with somebody who is the wrong client for us, then we have to find ways to get, to get that relationship, not to proceed because we never want someone to get into a contract with us and figure out who we are after the paperwork is signed or the dollars are exchanged. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe now we can get into some of these, like what would you say your mantra is not only, and it could be the same thing cause they would be for me, but what's the mantra for you and your business? Our most honest energy attracts our best lives. Oh, I love that. That's so good. I say, like I say, cause I know you're going to ask me mantra and I wrote it, but I need to start saying that every day.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Can I put it on my wall to remind ourselves?

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yes. Yes. Because every day I'm like, okay, what am I going to disrupt today? How am I going to upset my status quo, the status quo that's out there. And I had to challenge myself on that too. So I'm glad that, you know, and that's what I want the listeners to understand. It's like, guys, you don't do this in a vacuum and it's not going to always be perfect right now. It is like what I do for a living. And it is so my existential crisis today with like, how do I get the hard words out of my soul, into the internet? Like I do this for a living and I still struggle with that. And I have a very supportive business partner who is like always, they're always pushing me to be more myself. You think God, you know, but I'm not doing this alone.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
And it's still so hard when I say it like it's no big deal. Oh my most honest energy. I mean, we are trained to hide our most honest energy. Like we are, we live in a system, that's going to say like, what are you doing with flamingos in the backroom? That's unprofessional. Like we have all of this. You know, there was a time I wouldn't have worn black nail Polish because it was unprofessional. I need the things in my brain about how I was supposed to show up. It's a lot. It is. And I'm so glad you talked about that too, because I think we all had somebodies version of how we are supposed to show up. Right. We've been living out of other people's contexts and I think the world is waking up to that and we're just like, no damn more like, you know, I'm so I'm 40 and I'm just so in tune with the years after universe week, call it university.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
You guys call it college. But the years after university, my early career years where I worked in big corporate and really, really wanted like very motivated. I knew I could get promotions and all the things that check all the boxes and I knew I could and I believe I can do pretty much anything. So like, I was very clear on that. But the rules of that world, all hinged, like my success, no matter what, 100%, 100% always hinged on my ability to make rich, straight, old white men comfortable. And the more comfortable they felt, the higher the reward for my career, that was like, my value was measured in the amount of comfort I delivered to that demographic. Like that's, you know, and that's I was reading a good girl, like I was told to you. And it was working out well until I realized how small

Speaker 2 (15:48):
You just said a mouthful. Like, I don't know that. I don't know. A lot of people are even conscious to that right now. Right. That we have made ourselves more women, especially women of color, even more like, it's almost like it's dangerous to be you because you won't get promoted. You're already not getting paid. What everybody else is getting paid. So you won't get the promotion. You can't wear what the hell you want to wear because you might get raped. You can't dance the way you want to dance. Cause it might seem sexual. Like it's such bullshit. And to your point, I, I my career started off in politics and not really politics, but I worked for elected officials and I had to play their damn game. Right. So there's a lot of maneuvering. A lot of eating your words is a lot of not even telling the truth about what you think is right or wrong, you know? So I,

Speaker 1 (16:47):
So that is so true. And I can remember some of my jobs, all of my jobs were one of the things that I thought was a great skill. I can't even believe I'm saying this, but I thought it was a great skill that I was able to figure out what would be the decision that my boss would want. And then I could actually suspend my own judgment, thoughts and feelings to assume that. And so it was like, Ooh, how valuable is this? I can always pick the theme that he wants me to pick and never have to, you know, use my silly girlish ways and rely on my own intuition gifts or whatever. Right. But those pesky things aren't going to get in the way. It's just really something. When you think about how we were raised and how this world has rewarded success and how wildly that is currently being disrupted and how lucky we are.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I know like I was, I don't know who I was talking to, but I was like, you know what, what's happening right now in the world, you know, I can get pissed off about, but I'm like, this is actually a really great time to be alive because you know, I've seen like we've seen I'm 10 years older than you, but I've seen like the world actually change in front of our eyes. And the fact that people are waking up to who they are like that to me is the ultimate goal of being alive. Right. My parents didn't get to do that. No, they didn't get to do that. Cause they had to figure out a way to send us to school and do all the things. So I'm super grateful that I live in the world right now. And I'm able to sit here from a place. I recognize a place of privilege and say these things.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yes, yes, exactly. So, Oh my gosh. You know, I recognize my privilege in this as well, obviously as a white woman and at the same time, feel a massive responsibility to be as visible as possible so that I can make my friends as visible as possible and my clients and just, you know, my biggest dream on this planet is just to redistribute power, wealth, and influence like that is all I think about all the time. And you know, I did this exercise last night. It's so strange that we're talking about this today. I haven't even, we haven't shared this with any of our clients or anything. I just read it here today. But I'm always like, there's this problem solving model, the five why's are you have a problem? You're like, why did that happen? And then you ask why again, and then eventually you hopefully get to the root of the problem.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, I decided to do that on my brand last night. So, so interesting when we're talking about this right now, because you know, you and I are in we're in a coaching group together, working on brand brand is all I do. We're launching a new program next month. And I've just, our brand is like, we're so happy with it, but there's always layers. And I think that is one of the things that I wish everybody understood is like, your brain has never done it always going on. And it's like, the deeper you can get the better it's going to be. Right? So, so this is some brain work we were doing. So, you know, why do we do the work we do? So our program is the society brand integrity. We teach marketing and we help and coach and keep entrepreneurs on branch because they'll build a beautiful brand.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
And then a shiny object will come by and they'll forget about it. So we keep them on brand. We keep reminding them who they are and that's that's our program. So why do we do it? So this is, this is what I wrote to teach entrepreneurs, how to use their voices. Why? Because I'm tired of seeing the same types of voices, having all the power. Why? Because when marginalized voices try to speak in this world, we often can't hear them through the noise of us being busy, trying to fit in. Why? Because if we're not listening to those voices, then we're now procreating a world that benefits very few inner presses, many including ourselves, why we will always regret not using the platform we've built to redistribute wealth, power and influence. We will always regret just using your attention to sell you shit. And that is the exercise.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
So I highly recommend it's not an official exercise, but highly recommend because it gave me a new level of depth in why we do what we do. Yeah. And I love this, especially the last part, because that was the core and the essence of who you guys are and why you are here and you don't, and you get to that by doing all of the other stuff. Right. And you got to that because of what's happening in the world, what you've been through, like this is the new, this is what's going on. And I love that you said your brand creating your brand never ends. It's almost like us. As long as you're evolving as a human being, your brand should be evolving. Yes. Right? Yes. Yeah. And this does not mean endless rebrands. I think that people are constantly rebrand. Oh, we're going to new name, new logo coming.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
I'm like, that is not the point. You know, lots of agencies make a lot of money over that, but these constant rebrands and this constant, you know, new assets and all of this stuff that is stays often. So surface level would just be so much better if we could actually understand that the growth of a brand comes from the depth of its roots and not just adding more leaves all the time, you know? Absolutely. Okay. So I guess you've described your brand for us. Tell me what is your least favorite mode of communication? And don't tell me social media also I'm on box. I'm on the, not like inbox or train is locked. Cause I think it's just voicemail in disguise, but got to answer right away. I don't get it. I don't get, I don't get why anybody thinks voicemail anymore. I don't get boxer.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
I do love a voice text, but I don't think we need a new channel that that's not the communication by recorded voice. That's my problem. It's that multiple boxes or places high information actually makes sense because I was thinking I like voicemail because I like to tell people why I'm calling. I don't like when people call and don't tell me why they're calling me what a voice message would do the same thing. Oh, I love a good voice text. And it's just like in the place where you receive information, right? So, you know, communication, the communication process has never changed. There's, you know, somebody sends a message out and they encode that message and then there's a receiver and they decode that message. And it's like the smoother that path, the better the communication. But as soon as we start adding all of these like inboxes and mailboxes and all of these things, that path gets really confused. Right? So voicemail dressing, bananas, just because of that email, just send me an email so I can answer questions, come back. And the girl a voicemail did do some video messages last week. And I really, really liked that.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love when people send me a video message makes my day. In fact, I got a podcast request today to be on an interview from somebody I'd never heard of just a cold email was very strange. And I was like immediately like scam and there was a video and I watched it and I really liked it. He is, his personality was really engaging. So then I went and researched him and it looks like he's legit. So I was like, if he hadn't put that video in, there's no way I would have said yes with podcasts. Yeah. Cause I've gotten a couple too. And it hadn't been, there was no video and I haven't even responded to them. Yeah, exactly. And I booked, I have a call booked for them on Monday was like, I know it's a video. Yeah. Video is something else. So tell me what outfit makes you feel like it's okay.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
I love showing up in the world. Like I am performing at some, like, even if it's just like going to dinner. So when did a anniversary dinner with my husband the other night in leopard pants, right. In like small town, new Brunswick, you know? So like pleather pants, leopard print, everything for, but only vintage. I have, I wear, I have a full fur coat that was from the eighties. Like I just love it. I love, I just love being completely over the top and just making a statement that like, if I can show up in the world like this, you can show up in the world, however you want it. I love that statement. I love that. I love that. So what would you not wear?

Speaker 1 (26:04):
I don't know a time with that, man. I mean like, you know, anything's like stained and like all the, like I'm pretty, I'm pretty, I hear pretty much if I were a pleather pants in high school, in fact I was telling my business partner this the other day I had this very prestigious co op ed placement in grade 12. I was the first student ever. And I might've been the only student that ever get placed with a provincial court judge. And so it was a pretty big deal. I had very good grades and I had a really, you know, pretty good reputation. And so this judge said, okay, you know, Natalie, come on in. And so I went and bought myself a whole wardrobe and I showed up on my first day with a floor laggards to work with.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
I I've always

Speaker 1 (26:48):
This way and I don't know where it came from, but I love it. And back in the day, they probably would've been like, that's not really appropriate 98,

Speaker 4 (26:59):
But you know, nobody said anything

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Just on my friend. So we'll, we'll just keep rolling with it. So I know, you know, a lot about color psychology, right? What made you guys choose the colors that you chose for your brand? Yeah, so our brand has, it's mostly a maroon and a Navy blue. Some of the colors are like secondary colors are pulled into these flowers behind me. Here's how we did it. We showed up for, I knew the photo should I want it for our first brand photo shoot. And so we showed up for that photo shoot, my business partner, Kiera and myself. We was just the two of us starting out. And we showed up in our most kind of honest outfits that portrayed ass where we felt really great. And so curious an integrator, she's an introvert, she's very detail oriented. I am a visionary extrovert, creative we're complete opposites in almost every way.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
And so I show up in black leather pants and this like kind of over the top maroon blouse and curious shows up in a gray wool sweater and jeans and light jeans. And she showed me show up in these outfits. And so we do a photo shoot or sitting together in this photo shoot and she's got light here and I black hair and we took the photos and they turn us so well. And so immediately what I did to create our brand colors was actually less of a psychology and more about our business is called marrow. And it's all about being who you are. And so we actually pulled the color straight out of our outfits and we have this iconic sofa that was in all of our photos. Half of it is blue and plain and that's her side. And then the other half is these floral crazy colors. And that's my side. So we pulled all of the colors from a color picker right out of those photos because those photos were the most honest representation of who we are.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
And I've never really worked with my client in that way. But I mean, it makes total sense. Right, right. And it does speak to like, not trying to redo the box. Right. Cause people get so confused when it comes to photo shoots, I'm going to wear these things that I don't typically wear and I'm going to put them on so I can look so great for this photo shoot, but I'm never going to wear them again. And they're going to be the wrong colors and all of the things I love that you guys did that we did. And that's where the sort of flamingos came from. One of our clients has that like a boutique. And so she actually staged the photo shoot with different props and we ended up having so much fun with the flamingos that became a huge part of our brand.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
They have been ever since. And it was really a natural evolution of who are we let's go spend the afternoon being the most honest version of ourselves in this photo shoot and then see, build the brand from that. Now that's not a process that I've ever seen anyone go through before or since, but it is something that's worth exploring if you're starting from scratch and you, you, you have somebody with you as a photographer or creative director who is really skilled at figuring out what your marrow is and pulling that out. That's really the key. Yeah. So cool.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
So, all right. So let's talk about like you and I had already got into a bunch of disruption before we, what was it that got you into this industry? You said that you worked for corporate before, was there some kind of disruption that happened in that space where you were like, fuck this, I'm about to go and do my own thing. I think the big disruption that I am participating in is actually the decision to no longer take agency clients. So we are finishing our last agency projects right now and move exclusively into teaching. And the reason that that is so essential is, you know, whether they'll admit it or not, anybody who's spent any amount of time in agencies know, but the agency model is like a little bit broken or a lot, bit, a lot bit broken. And that is not the fault of agencies that it's not the fault of clients.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
There are certainly occasions in which things work really well. But when it works really well is when you have staff in house who are skilled, trained in understand their responsibilities and that in the brand. And that is actually so rare. And so what you have is agencies on the one hand selling things to brands that brands do not understand usually what they've been buying or what they can expect for an outcome. And then the agency doesn't have the skills time or resources to educate them. And so you have this problem where the client wants this, but they don't know how to articulate it. The agency sells this, those expectations can't be met because they're both on different pages. And then the agency ends up the scope creep and over, you know, working all these extra hours and do all these things to try and just have a satisfied client in the end, when really there was a huge, huge disconnect in the first place.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
And so by launching the society brand integrity in our programs like the marketing lab, we've always been really focused on that brand, whether it's one person or 10 people just, or a hundred people just understanding that they need the understanding in house to either DIY their marketing or hire it appropriately. And that is not the responsibility of an agency. And that is really that's the disruption that we're after. Oh, I love that. I actually, this is so interesting. Have you seen Emily and parents, everybody is like, watch this and tell me what you think I have not seen it. So they do kind of touch on that whole branding piece. Right. So she wants her marketing agency. I mean, I love it because she's in Paris and I'm just like, right. That part for me is everything. But they talk about how one of the people that she talked to she's like the agency is dead.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right. And it got me to think into like, is the agency dead? Or is it the way that the agency communicates? Is that, is that the part that's dead? So maybe that's why people told you to take a look at it. And then the fact that a lot of people have influencers doing the heavy lifting for them. Right. Right. Well, what came to me in that? Cause one of the episodes is about influencing and influencers were molding themselves in a way that actually led to the brand to the brand, but not really had them stand out, just finish talking about that. Right. You got to brand yourself as yours and the other stuff gets to be secondary. Yes. Oh, it's really interesting. Influencers are just the current billboard. It's like not, not to say like not to minimize influencers, but that's what it is. It's, it's still the medium.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
And I think we still do need creative professionals who can craft amazing messages, pull campaigns together, do graphics. All of those things are important. I don't think agencies are dead. I do think that we've had a mass flood of information that the end user can can get. And they, most, most brands have just enough information to make them slightly dangerous. You know what I mean? But nobody talks about the inner workings of where things start, start and end. It really like I've been in agencies for maybe two and a half years when I really stopped and had this moment of, I was talking to a client and they wanted they called me and said they wanted a campaign. And as I spoke through this with them, I realized they didn't know what a Campion really was or to a brand or marketing strategy. And then I started thinking about how many times anybody had ever really come to me and asked for what they needed or what I would have assessed them to a meeting.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
And that almost never happened. So like, never like, so people would come and be like, can you help with my social media? Maybe like, but you don't have core foundational key messages for your brand or you've never done by your persona research or your buyer persona research is something an agency did. And they never did the research. They just made fake personas. So there were all these problems that kept coming up that I kept facing with when clients would come and ask for something. And then I would be like, I really don't think that's going to actually get them to the goal. The big goal that they're looking for marketing agencies should exist to help move you towards a business goal, but they take an order and they deliver the outcome in the person who placed the order. Never had the context to understand what they were ordering. And so that's where we just keep getting into all these problems. Right.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
So true. I mean, myself, I went through that same thing. I thought I needed a social media manager. And one of the things that she, I thought she was going to be doing was helping me with that branding piece. And you should have seen some issues. She posted for me. And it was like these little animated Holly lobby looking stuff. And I'm just like, you do not know me at all. Right. Or the person I'm trying to attract. So yes. Super, super interesting. You love that. Okay. So tell me more about what are you teaching? And then also I know that you're doing some interesting things on IgG reels and tick-tock and all of the new stuff that's out there. So tell us about that.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So as the cited brand integrity has our flagship programmers signature course, the marketing lab. So we have, we're essentially taking the marketing lab and we're turning it into a year long membership, but it was a seven week program up until now. And so what's really cool about that is we teach you, somebody said to me one time, well, what if I'm too advanced for it? It's not like that. It's like I said before, your brand never stops evolving. Right? There's always another layer. If somebody comes into a program like ours and says like, Oh, well, you know, I know everything about marketing. I'm like, well, you're really not suited for this program then, because that doesn't exist. There is no everything about marketing. I would learn if I could take the time and sit in the program myself, because it's all about guiding you through building a brand that is in integrity.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
And when I say brand integrity, I mean, are you who you say that you are, that's it. And have you, are you saying that you're somebody that is easy to stay consistent with? So if you're showing up and you're like, you know what? My pizza restaurant is the fastest pizza delivery restaurant in our city. You own that. Now it does not matter if you have the freshest tomatoes. It does not matter if you have the most delicious sauce, nobody cares unless you're the fastest. And if you're not the fastest, you're now not the fastest and a liar. Literally nobody cares that you have the best tomato cause you made a promise and you didn't keep it. And so everything we teach is about how do we build brand messaging? That is so honest to the core. You can't go off brand. And that's really what it's about.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Love it. Yeah. And I do, I love the way that you put that together because I think a lot of people think ran integrity is not about the promise and keeping it or solving the problem and, or saying that you can solve a certain problem that you really can't solve. I think it's, I think people believe that it's more about, am I going to show up

Speaker 1 (38:36):
In a certain kind of way, right? That's really not what it is. Like you have to show up in the way that you promised that you would 100% like it. And that's it. When we talk about, you know, me being on reels and me being on Ted talk, I mean, why am I on those platforms? Because I dance around all the time. That's my energy. I behave that way constantly. I behave that way in person. If we were in an office together, you, you would constantly make fun of me as has every person that has ever worked with me that I cannot process information without movement. So that means I doodle all day. I have a million post-its I never look at them again, but I have to move my hand. If we get on an intense phone call, I walk up and down the hallway and I need movement to be able to process information. That also means constantly dancing, constantly moving around like this. So when I can show up and I'm dancing on reels, or I'm doing a Friday dance on our Instagram or whatever it is, that is part of our brand because it's what I do. Okay. So I've got to tell you, I love when people are doing that, when it is authentic, but the ones that are killing me right now, he's like, what the fuck? What is this? He wants to see that like it's not even words, right?

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah. Yeah. I have to admit, I posted one today where it went a little bit off. I was like, one of the things that I still do, it's so funny. I posted one the other day after after the debate, actually I was on, in particular rant about whether women should smile or not smile and do whatever you can say fuck on here. Like all day long. Oh good. Cause I needed, I needed to get one out. Right? So she was coached not to be the angry black woman. Right. She smiled too much was the feedback. Right? The feedback was going to be, the reality is as discussed earlier, her mere presence on that stage creates discomfort in the lives of old, rich, white, straight men. So no matter what happened, there was going to be a criticism because the discomfort already was there. Right.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
So it was more like when they say things like, Oh, she smelled too much. Or she smelled too little. They're justifying the discomfort. They already felt that is not justified. And that's really, in my opinion, what, what goes on. I totally agree with you on that. Let me be right about the fact that she should not be there. And it's just this like kind of call to like, Hey, who else needs, needs an outlet for this? Who else is feeling uncomfortable and needs an excuse? Oh, here's mine. Let me give you this so we can, you know, we can congregate her. I mean, it's ridiculous. Clearly I needed to make a dancing, kick talk about it. And I, and I did the next day. Check it out. Well, it's funny about it is it has a typo in it when to talk is the worst for you.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Can't go back and edit. Once you put a caption overlay, it's there. And so it has a typo in it and I posted it and it had started to get pretty decent engagement already. And I stopped myself. I wanted to delete it so bad. And you know, all of that, all of the commentary, all of the training that we have, don't ever let a time, I'll get out there. You want to know the truth about my life is that I move really fast and I make, I need a proofreader all the time. I can spell it very, very well, but I w I moved too fast. And if I had to slow down and proofread my stuff, I lose my, my energy. I lose my magic. So I don't do that. So is there a Muslim mistaken? It, yeah. Also I have two children with dysgraphia, which has a learning disability, and I know how many people out there have dyslexia or have other learning disabilities that make spelling not an easy skill for them. And so one of the things I really tried to calm myself to do lately is leave my typos up. Even though I'm one of those people to be able to stand in more diversity of expression, even if it looks unprofessional, because I don't feel okay with my children being raised in a world where they feel like there's something wrong with them because of learning disability. So lift it up

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Steak, right? Like who in the hell said that we can't make mistakes? I think that, I think this is part of the other, and I'm not saying that there's not a level of professionalism that we all are excellent. Let me go with excellence, excellence that we all should be aspiring to. What I'm saying is that I feel like the, the Twitter police, the people who are checking us on all of the things are really projecting their own stuff on to us. Number one, and the number two it's like, where did that whole idea of being perfect come from like that professionalism. And I remember one time I'll send out an email to the judges and all their support staff. And I said, what does it say, Oh, it was something about happy Friday. And it was actually happy Friday, or I dunno, it was a big mistake and I was mortified. Cause I'm like, yeah, all these judges just solved my mistake. And I'm like, you know what? They believe just like me. And I'm sure that there's something else that they've made a mistake in. And you know, it's really not that big of a deal, but I want to kind of open up the conversation about, is this perfectionism part of the patriarchy or the racist, patriarchy just like pounding down on us that have to be a different way.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
We're set. I mean, when this all started, I'm sure, you know, who were the people who had access to proofreaders. Right? And like, there are, you know, you'll hear stories when you're talking to people at generations behind us where like, Oh yeah, you know, my dad or my uncle was this big executive, but he couldn't, he couldn't write herself. So he had a secretary and that was her job. You know, the keys, things that exist in these structures that existed previously to protect that and sh and make it look a certain way are not honest. Right? That's the thing. And I just don't want my children to believe that they need an army of people to make them look perfect. If they make a spelling mistake, frankly, you know, I'm capable of not making a spelling mistake. That's a skill that I have, but I don't want the way I show up in the world.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
My brand also is about being who you are. And so that means everybody. And that means that sometimes, you know, I'm not going to look the best and I'm okay with that. Trust comes down to two things, openness and competence in what we have done in our society. In my opinion, is we have taken competence to another place that's not even reasonable and sacrificed openness. So the reality is people don't expect competence in everything. They need competence in something they're hiring you for something many conferences up near Jaime for brand communications, not proofreading. They're hiring me for the soul of the message, the depth of the message. And I have, you know, some people around me that will proofread my product, but they're not hiring me to show up on social media and be perfect all the time. I'm not willing to do that at the detriment of openness. So my audience knows I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to say the wrong thing. I'm always going to own it. I'm going to apologize. I'm definitely gonna fuck up. And I'm here for that. And I'm going to keep doing that. If it means that that small business owner who is a cleaner or a hairdresser or whatever now has the courage maybe to make a post on social media too, because it's not that big of a deal. She makes mistakes.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Absolutely. Absolutely. This is amazing. Thank you so much is one of our guests experts in the freedom lounge, because we both love the freedom there. And she's teaching you all about the take talk and all about ID reels and all of it, the newer technology that's out there. So if you want to be a part of that, then join our creative lounge. But why don't you tell them how they can reach out to you if they heard something they wanted to do. And this is going to be in the show notes. So you have a freebie or anything that you want them to go and check out, and what's your website.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah. Our website is made of marrow.com. So that's made of OLF marrow and on Instagram, we're at made marrow and we change our freebie all the time. So right now I'm just looking at it. We have a, we're actually buying people to join our Facebook group on the brand and in integrity. And I go that group

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Every Tuesday and do a question of the week. So people send me all kinds of random marketing questions don't want that I'm probably going to do next week is, you know, what should we be doing differently because of COVID with our brand communications, but anything from how do I get my brand listed on Google to what's working this week? I did a review of a top five social media posts that we've had this year and to show people what's still working in 2020. So we do all kinds of different stuff in there, but that it's completely free. And it's just a place where, you know, we make sure that we're building community and we're helping brands that really do care about being who they say they are. That's what we're here to do. Definitely aligned you. And I, for sure. Oh yeah. Integrity. I might say so much for coming today. I totally appreciate it so much fun. And I know that Allison is going to get a lot from them. So thank you. It was such a blast. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Hey guys, Mia Lamott here. Thank you guys so much for listening to grand disrupters, the podcast. I would love it. If you would leave a review for us on your favorite platform. Also, you know, we have a website where you can go and listen to all of the previous episodes to make sure that you're leaving us some comments there as well. I'm happy to announce that we have a brand new Facebook group called the brand disruptors community. And we'd love it. If you'd come and jump in there with us, it's a free Facebook group where we're offering all kinds of information about branding. I go live every Wednesday and teach a subject or teach something that will help you to bring your brand to the forefront of the world. So you can make an impact. So make sure that you're actually having some fun with us, like come and join the Facebook group. But also like guys, Brandon disruptors is not only a community and a podcast. It's also our signature coaching program. And in that coaching program, I teach female entrepreneurs how to monetize market and discover their brand so they can get paid to be themselves. If you think you want to become a part of this community and make sure that you reach out to [email protected] and we are ready to help, we'll see you soon. Make sure you leave us a comment about today's episode.